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Damaged top
http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=56781		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  banjopicks [ Sat Sep 14, 2024 8:08 am ]
Post subject:  Damaged top
Sooo, i started using my new router tower and leveling board. I was afraid to even start using it and with good reason. I learned the hard way that i need to cover all metal parts with leather. The guitar somehow fell off the supports and the top of a screw dug in.

I tried and tried to steam it out. I didn't make much progress.ImageImage

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Author:  bcombs510 [ Sat Sep 14, 2024 8:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Damaged top
Where is it located on the top?


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Author:  Juergen [ Sat Sep 14, 2024 8:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Damaged top
That is an very old trick of a furniture restauration man, my uncle. Make the dent wet, then rubb it very fast with the cork of a vine bottle, better a champagne bottle. Try it several times until the dent comes up again.

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Author:  jfrench [ Sat Sep 14, 2024 8:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Damaged top
How long did you steam it for and what was your process? It looks like you have broken fibers in there, but it also looks like it should steam up quite a bit. This might be what you've already done, but if not try a wet (not dripping) paper towel and a clothes iron on it for 10-15 seconds, look at it, and then repeat and re-wet as needed. If it comes up nicely, I'd then brush some hot hide glue on it.
Author:  Michaeldc [ Sat Sep 14, 2024 8:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Damaged top
I prefer a soldering iron over a clothes iron - it’s easier to focus the heat.

M
Author:  SteveSmith [ Sat Sep 14, 2024 9:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Damaged top
I also prefer a soldering iron and a wet piece of cotton T-shirt for steaming out dents. Any reason you can't flip the top over and put the damage on the underside? EDIT: oops, I see the top is already glued on.
Author:  jfrench [ Sat Sep 14, 2024 9:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Damaged top
I have always found the tip of a clothes iron to be fast and accurate, creating a lot of steam. But to each their own. I believe he is saying he was at the point of routing for his bindings when the guitar fell off the cradle, so there would be no turning the soundboard over at that point.
Author:  Glen H [ Sat Sep 14, 2024 9:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Damaged top
Been there many times. Crushed fibers are harder to fix. If it were my ding, first thing I would do is put one single drop of water right in the center of it and leave it overnight. Then re-access.
Author:  DennisK [ Sat Sep 14, 2024 9:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Damaged top
It does look like it should steam out. I boil some water in a pan, dip a piece of paper towel in it and set it on the dent, and press the pan against it for 20-30 seconds. No danger of overheating, as the water is no more than 212F to begin with, and cools off the longer you hold it.

If it really won't swell, you'll just have to graft in a piece of wood and live with a couple of horizontal glue lines. I'd cut out a rectangle between those two dark grain lines, and ignore the minor damage farther to the right.
Author:  banjopicks [ Sat Sep 14, 2024 9:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Damaged top
Juergen wrote:
That is an very old trick of a furniture restauration man, my uncle. Make the dent wet, then rubb it very fast with the cork of a vine bottle, better a champagne bottle. Try it several times until the dent comes up again.

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That's a new method to me. I just used a damp paper towel and soldering iron. I made some progress but need a little more.

My binding ledges came out great! I made my own wooden bindings that are .06 thick and bend pretty easy. Im not sure if it's worth pre-bending.

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Author:  banjopicks [ Sat Sep 14, 2024 9:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Damaged top
DennisK wrote:
It does look like it should steam out. I boil some water in a pan, dip a piece of paper towel in it and set it on the dent, and press the pan against it for 20-30 seconds. No danger of overheating, as the water is no more than 212F to begin with, and cools off the longer you hold it.

If it really won't swell, you'll just have to graft in a piece of wood and live with a couple of horizontal glue lines. I'd cut out a rectangle between those two dark grain lines, and ignore the minor damage farther to the right.
I'll consider this. Similarly, ieas thinking of scooping it out with a gouge and fiiling it with another scoop. I've done this before with good success.

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Author:  Ken Nagy [ Sat Sep 14, 2024 11:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Damaged top
[/quote]I'll consider this. Similarly, ieas thinking of scooping it out with a gouge and fiiling it with another scoop. I've done this before with good success.

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I've done that before with pitch pockets. If you have the same belly wood handy, and have it facing the right way, and pick the same grain pattern, it almost disappears.
Author:  Pat Foster [ Sat Sep 14, 2024 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Damaged top
I prefer a soldering iron too. Soldering irons need to get up to at least 300 deg F to melt solder; clothes irons, not so much.
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Sat Sep 14, 2024 8:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Damaged top
If steam does not do it I guess I’d consider grafting similar spruce from one of the off cuts in that area and do a burst. I don’t think you could ever completely hide that under a clear finish.

One thought, I always thin the edges of the lower bout after the box is closed but before binding. Got the idea from Dana Bourgeois’ voicing articles. You can look them up. He taps and feels the top vibrate while thinning.

On an OM with around a 0.118 top they usually wind up around 0.090-0.095. You can measure by looking at the exposed edge of top.

If you have a pretty thick top this might allow you to sand out some of what is left after steaming. You could recut the binding channels if needed.

Another thing, I didn’t see any shellac on that top. I always shellac the edges before cutting the channels and taping the bindings.

Let us know what you do :)
Author:  Hesh [ Sun Sep 15, 2024 5:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Damaged top
Hutch my friend it may be too much of a dent with broken fibers, etc but there is no harm in trying:

http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10117&t=20604
Author:  Clay S. [ Tue Sep 17, 2024 5:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Damaged top
Pre-wet the dent so there is plenty of moisture to make steam within the fibers of the wood and then use the wet rag and iron or soldering iron. If you have a steam iron use the steam from the iron in addition to the wet rag. After raising the dent while the area is still wet, wipe the entire top with a wet cloth to help avoid water marks.
Author:  banjopicks [ Tue Sep 17, 2024 9:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Damaged top
bcombs510 wrote:
Where is it located on the top?


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Upper bout where you rest your arm.
Author:  bftobin [ Tue Sep 17, 2024 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Damaged top
This may be an opportunity to do an inlay.

Brent
Author:  bcombs510 [ Tue Sep 17, 2024 5:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Damaged top
banjopicks wrote:
bcombs510 wrote:
Where is it located on the top?


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Upper bout where you rest your arm.

Do you mean lower bout?

If the lower bout, maybe an arm bevel or similar? Provided it doesn’t steam out using the recommendations above.


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Author:  rbuddy [ Tue Sep 17, 2024 7:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Damaged top
That looks bad.

Because water wants to bead up and take a while to soak in, as others have mentioned give it some time to wet the wood.

But I tried applying a small drop to the dent. Then I heat up a dull pointed piece of metal, a tine of a stainless fork would work, in a propane torch till quite hot and just touch it to the bead of water. The water immediately comes to a boil as it soaks in to the dent. Repeat as necessary. Practice on a scrap dent.

What I like is it confines the heat and steam to the dent and you can see exactly what you are doing. It only takes a second per droplet.

It's my goto dent fix.
Author:  banjopicks [ Wed Sep 18, 2024 8:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Damaged top
bcombs510 wrote:
banjopicks wrote:
bcombs510 wrote:
Where is it located on the top?


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Upper bout where you rest your arm.

Do you mean lower bout?

If the lower bout, maybe an arm bevel or similar? Provided it doesn’t steam out using the recommendations above.


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Yes, lower bout.
Author:  banjopicks [ Sat Sep 21, 2024 4:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Damaged top
It's almost gone now. It took a bunch of steamings and plus a little heavy sanding. This looks acceptable to me, and i won't mess with it any further until finish time. It's neck carving time, yay!
Image

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